Wafers not staying on
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Wafers not staying on
Hello, I had a transverse colostomy 12/15/21. I think it will be a good thing in the long run, as I had neurogenic bowel and severe spasticity due to paralysis. But I’m having a hard time getting the skin barrier/wafer to stay attached without leaking through the middle ring for even 24 hours often. I started with hollister and am trying coloplast sensura mio with closed and drainable pouches, at the recommendation of my Ostomy nurse. The Mio wafers seem better than the hollister new image, but the coloplast pouches flatten against the stoma and don’t really allow space for the stool to drop to the bottom of the pouch. I think that is due to the filter system so it doesn’t balloon, but it seems to not empty as well. Any recommendations? I have to change or empty pouches 2-3 times per day. My stomach is pretty smooth and round, no creases or anything. I’m having increased issues when I play sports. Almost always has dislodged after playing some pickleball. TIA for any advice!
Leif
Leif
Re: Wafers not staying on
i have tried others as well and still go back to hollister ,have you tried the ring? you can reach out to hollister for help .also let your nurse know of your new issues ..... good luck
Re: Wafers not staying on
Coloplast Mio pouches unstick within a day for me. However, Coloplast SenSura pouches work great for me. I use their product 15633 and get 4 good days.
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Re: Wafers not staying on
Try a ring. It solved all my leakage issues.
I still get them once in awhile. But no where near what it was.
I could go longer than seven days without changing. But I change after seven days.
The ring isn't fool proof. Takes awhile to figure out how and where.
You want it to mushroom over the stoma. It works well in my case.
Good luck.
I have an end ileo.
I also use Convetec pre cut (wafer) two peice drainable. The ring I use is Adapt. I use precut wafers because I'm fumble fingers and it's just easier.
Richard.
I still get them once in awhile. But no where near what it was.
I could go longer than seven days without changing. But I change after seven days.
The ring isn't fool proof. Takes awhile to figure out how and where.
You want it to mushroom over the stoma. It works well in my case.
Good luck.
I have an end ileo.
I also use Convetec pre cut (wafer) two peice drainable. The ring I use is Adapt. I use precut wafers because I'm fumble fingers and it's just easier.
Richard.
Re: Wafers not staying on
I use the Coloplast Mio wafer with drainable bags.
Early on - and it was “pre-Mio” - I had problems of the output lifting the wafer. I don’t have such problems anymore. What is different?
What is different is the consistency of the output. If the output is thick it is going to be sticky and it isn’t going to want to drop down. So there is a struggle: Can the strength of the wafer adhesive resist the push of the intestines, so that the output is ultimately forced to the bottom of the bag? Or does the adhesive fail? And the answer is,… intestines win, the push is powerful, indeed.
I have diverticulosis that is symptomatic if I don’t take evasive action. I learned the hard way that normal or hard output is a problem for my condition. So now I take Miralax daily. A side benefit is that I no longer have wafers lifting.
Possible solutions to your problem might be a stool softener or a bag lubricant. I have no experience with either, so I can’t say. But I do know your problem.
Early on - and it was “pre-Mio” - I had problems of the output lifting the wafer. I don’t have such problems anymore. What is different?
What is different is the consistency of the output. If the output is thick it is going to be sticky and it isn’t going to want to drop down. So there is a struggle: Can the strength of the wafer adhesive resist the push of the intestines, so that the output is ultimately forced to the bottom of the bag? Or does the adhesive fail? And the answer is,… intestines win, the push is powerful, indeed.
I have diverticulosis that is symptomatic if I don’t take evasive action. I learned the hard way that normal or hard output is a problem for my condition. So now I take Miralax daily. A side benefit is that I no longer have wafers lifting.
Possible solutions to your problem might be a stool softener or a bag lubricant. I have no experience with either, so I can’t say. But I do know your problem.
Re: Wafers not staying on
I have an ileo, so my case is different but I have always heard that If the filter is working too well and causing the pouch to cling to the stoma you should cover the filter. This allows for a bit of gas/air to be trapped which moves the pouch away from the stoma. You can control how long to wear the filter cover, or learn to burp the bag (if its a two piece). The filter covers come with the pouches, correct?
Also, Osto EZ Vents work like a small pressure release valve, and they can be installed on any pouching system--one or two piece. Look up Osto EZ Vent on Veganostomy's youtube channel if you can. He shows how they're applied and used--and gives the pros/cons.
I wish you the best of success. Hang in there!
Pa
Also, Osto EZ Vents work like a small pressure release valve, and they can be installed on any pouching system--one or two piece. Look up Osto EZ Vent on Veganostomy's youtube channel if you can. He shows how they're applied and used--and gives the pros/cons.
I wish you the best of success. Hang in there!
Pa
Pat
Irreversible ileostomy--March 2021
Irreversible ileostomy--March 2021
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- Joined: 2016-01-20 23:25:36
Re: Wafers not staying on
Hey again.
I know an end ileo is a different animal than a colostomy.
And I'm not sure this would apply in your situation.
But with my experience with an end ileo I know if I eat something like mashed potatoes.
Carrots.
Cheese.
Anything that thickens it too much it will cause it to leak. Everytime. I don't know if this would apply with a colostomy. My stool is mostly liquid but I think a colostomy is mainly thick. Correct me if I'm wrong.
So I have to avoid or eat those things sparingly to avoid a leak.
As for the vents. I have no idea how they work even if they do. Sometimes I just have air and it ain't goin out the vent. Never has.
Anyway. A stoma is a stoma. And if we don't get a good seal it's gonna leak.
Over time we figure what works and what doesn't. Trial and error. I'm still going through it even after six years. Lol. Once you stick one on (wafer) Ya hope you did it right. And most times I did. Sometimes I don't. And try and figure out what i did wrong.
I don't know if this is any help. But I thought I'd bring the food we eat issue up.
Richard.
I know an end ileo is a different animal than a colostomy.
And I'm not sure this would apply in your situation.
But with my experience with an end ileo I know if I eat something like mashed potatoes.
Carrots.
Cheese.
Anything that thickens it too much it will cause it to leak. Everytime. I don't know if this would apply with a colostomy. My stool is mostly liquid but I think a colostomy is mainly thick. Correct me if I'm wrong.
So I have to avoid or eat those things sparingly to avoid a leak.
As for the vents. I have no idea how they work even if they do. Sometimes I just have air and it ain't goin out the vent. Never has.
Anyway. A stoma is a stoma. And if we don't get a good seal it's gonna leak.
Over time we figure what works and what doesn't. Trial and error. I'm still going through it even after six years. Lol. Once you stick one on (wafer) Ya hope you did it right. And most times I did. Sometimes I don't. And try and figure out what i did wrong.
I don't know if this is any help. But I thought I'd bring the food we eat issue up.
Richard.
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- Joined: 2022-01-05 16:26:58
Re: Wafers not staying on
Thanks for all the advice guys! I am trying the rings, using adapt and it helps most of the time. I’m getting 48-72 hours. But still having stool leak under the wafer when I play sports. All the twisting I think playing pickleball in a wheelchair. Will double rings work?
-Johncarr, I’ll try the sensura pouch, thanks!
-Mysticcobra, what do you mean mushroom? Like the ring needs to be really tight around the stoma? Do you place it on your skin first, or on the wafer then put it on your skin? Yeah, I’ll have to pay attention to the diet more. Maybe start a food diary.
-BillGK, the consistency is thick sometimes. I can try some softener. But I’ve had just blood and mucus get under the wafer when I played pickleball, which was surprising!
-Patrimo, I actually tried the filter sticker to keep some air in before I read your reply and I think it helps. I’ll look into the other filter you mentioned. It seems some air gives it space which is helpful, but obviously don’t want ballooning. Thanks.
-Johncarr, I’ll try the sensura pouch, thanks!
-Mysticcobra, what do you mean mushroom? Like the ring needs to be really tight around the stoma? Do you place it on your skin first, or on the wafer then put it on your skin? Yeah, I’ll have to pay attention to the diet more. Maybe start a food diary.
-BillGK, the consistency is thick sometimes. I can try some softener. But I’ve had just blood and mucus get under the wafer when I played pickleball, which was surprising!
-Patrimo, I actually tried the filter sticker to keep some air in before I read your reply and I think it helps. I’ll look into the other filter you mentioned. It seems some air gives it space which is helpful, but obviously don’t want ballooning. Thanks.
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- Posts: 640
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Re: Wafers not staying on
Not tight I just push it over my stoma and make sure it's stuck down good before I take the plastic off the sticky side I'm pushing on. Keeping the plastic on because it will stick on your fingers. I push on the covered part of the ring and get it stuck down into my creases pretty good before I pull the tab off. And look again to check to see if it's against my stoma good. If not I gently nugde the edges against the stoma and then apply the wafer. Slowly as to get it centered. Then I snap my bag in and try not to bend too much for a few hours. I sit for 10 minutes with a heating pad over all of it to get it to what I say "get a good stick". Heat it up to help it stick to my skin. Seems to work.
Key is not to bend. Which you may not be able to do. But when I say bend I mean like exerting myself to pick up pennies off the floor. Lol. If I do it will leak. And has.
I'm on my fifth day and have been confident all week at bending. Fully. To pick up pennies.
It takes time as you know. When doing something different to get it right. Its a potshot everytime we change. You get one shot because we can't take it off to see if we did it right. If it leak I did it wrong.
Practice makes perfect. It took me awhile to get it right. You'll know when you do. Because it will last.
By mushrooming I mean the ring and wafer will "mushroom" around your stoma.
When you remove your wafer. Look at it as your peeling it if slowly. You. Or I. Can see what is wrong or right. If it's mushroomed or not . I found that stretching the ring before putting it on will make it leak. So I don't stretch it. Stomas are pretty tough. For that ring.
Good luck.
Richard /mysticobra.
P. S.
Sorry my advice is all over and so long.
My explaining is all over. Doing it and explaining it are two different things.
Lol.
P. S. S.
One thing I found important was to dry my stoma. We all know how quickly they weep.
Otherwise you are pushing all the "weep" under the ring. That definitely keeps it from sticking good. But you have to gently get the weep off and immediately put the ring on.
If that makes any sense.
Key is not to bend. Which you may not be able to do. But when I say bend I mean like exerting myself to pick up pennies off the floor. Lol. If I do it will leak. And has.
I'm on my fifth day and have been confident all week at bending. Fully. To pick up pennies.
It takes time as you know. When doing something different to get it right. Its a potshot everytime we change. You get one shot because we can't take it off to see if we did it right. If it leak I did it wrong.
Practice makes perfect. It took me awhile to get it right. You'll know when you do. Because it will last.
By mushrooming I mean the ring and wafer will "mushroom" around your stoma.
When you remove your wafer. Look at it as your peeling it if slowly. You. Or I. Can see what is wrong or right. If it's mushroomed or not . I found that stretching the ring before putting it on will make it leak. So I don't stretch it. Stomas are pretty tough. For that ring.
Good luck.
Richard /mysticobra.
P. S.
Sorry my advice is all over and so long.
My explaining is all over. Doing it and explaining it are two different things.
Lol.
P. S. S.
One thing I found important was to dry my stoma. We all know how quickly they weep.
Otherwise you are pushing all the "weep" under the ring. That definitely keeps it from sticking good. But you have to gently get the weep off and immediately put the ring on.
If that makes any sense.
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Re: Wafers not staying on
If I keep the plastic on one side of the ring while I put it on I can’t stretch the ring large enough to fit around my stoma. It’s like I need a tool to push the ring down.
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- Posts: 640
- Joined: 2016-01-20 23:25:36
Re: Wafers not staying on
I don't stretch the ring.
I push it over my stoma to my skin. The stoma is pretty flexible and the ring will mushroom around the stoma. That's what you want it to do.
And push the edges of the ring onto my skin before I peel the other side of the plastic off.
It's quite sticky as you know.
I get it on the best I can. Peel off the side and gently tamp it down close to my stoma.
I found if I stretch the ring prior to putting it on it will leak sometimes. So I keep it close before I put the wafer on. I've had pretty good luck this way. Everyone differs. It took me awhile to figure it out.
Now that I say this. I am fixing to go change. Lol. Cross my fingers it will seal good.
It's truly a potshot every time. Because you can't peel it off to look. If you know what I mean.
Richard.
I push it over my stoma to my skin. The stoma is pretty flexible and the ring will mushroom around the stoma. That's what you want it to do.
And push the edges of the ring onto my skin before I peel the other side of the plastic off.
It's quite sticky as you know.
I get it on the best I can. Peel off the side and gently tamp it down close to my stoma.
I found if I stretch the ring prior to putting it on it will leak sometimes. So I keep it close before I put the wafer on. I've had pretty good luck this way. Everyone differs. It took me awhile to figure it out.
Now that I say this. I am fixing to go change. Lol. Cross my fingers it will seal good.
It's truly a potshot every time. Because you can't peel it off to look. If you know what I mean.
Richard.
Re: Wafers not staying on
Just jumping in to say: I couldn't get the ring around my stoma if I kept the plastic on--at all. I don't really stretch it much prior to putting it on (just a little, because my stoma is more oval than round). I hadn't had any problems at all for almost a year, then the last month I've had several minor blowouts which contributed to some peristomal skin issues. I've changed from the Hollister O-rings back to the Brava O-rings and found that the Brava has a much better adhesive for my skin. So much so that they're actually much harder to remove--at this point. So I'll use them for now. The only rings I've never had success with are the Convatec ones. But I know it's different for everyone, and like Mysticobra said, it's truly a potshot every time (I was tempted to change that wording and call it a cr@pshoot--hoping to get a smile--but I don't want to offend anyone. )
Be well, Folks!
Be well, Folks!
Pat
Irreversible ileostomy--March 2021
Irreversible ileostomy--March 2021
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- Posts: 640
- Joined: 2016-01-20 23:25:36
Re: Wafers not staying on
Cra@pshoot. That works not offended.patrimo wrote: ↑2022-02-03 19:31:19 Just jumping in to say: I couldn't get the ring around my stoma if I kept the plastic on--at all. I don't really stretch it much prior to putting it on (just a little, because my stoma is more oval than round). I hadn't had any problems at all for almost a year, then the last month I've had several minor blowouts which contributed to some peristomal skin issues. I've changed from the Hollister O-rings back to the Brava O-rings and found that the Brava has a much better adhesive for my skin. So much so that they're actually much harder to remove--at this point. So I'll use them for now. The only rings I've never had success with are the Convatec ones. But I know it's different for everyone, and like Mysticobra said, it's truly a potshot every time (I was tempted to change that wording and call it a cr@pshoot--hoping to get a smile--but I don't want to offend anyone. )
Be well, Folks!
Just another observation. If I stretch the adapt ring it will leak. On me anyway. So I just put it over the stoma to my skin and push pretty hard all around. Especially the creases.
To make it stick good. But to do that I have to leave the plastic on one side because obviously it's too sticky.
And I find in my case to wipe the wet stoma with anything to dry it before putting the ring on. Otherwise I push whatever is on the stoma under the ring and it ends up under the ring and my skin preventing a good seal. It's hard to explain. Takes too long.
Sorry.
Richard.
Re: Wafers not staying on
If the Mio has those stupid baffles (baffles my mind why engineers are so dumb) like the Sensura you probably need something else. I sometimes get discharge from my ileostomy that is so thick, that stuff hangs up top and blows out. Nu Hope glue and a blow dryer can be very helpful with whatever you end up using. I just had keep trying stuff. Don’t give up.
Re: Wafers not staying on
Use tape around perimeter. Hypafix 4211 so sticky I wet my fingers to handle. Dip scissors in water or 91% isopropyl alcohol. It keeps tape from gumming blade. Perma Type Pink almost as good, but they screwed up, and wouldn’t make it right. They refuse to do business with me, a decision which has cost myself and Medicare (taxpayers) money! Dang! I sound just like my crabby old ex boss man who we nick named “ Costing Me Money”!