I did something insane again, I put the bag on upside down...

[Shamrock4806]

Was I drunk or standing in my head? Nope.

I was thinking on my long trip home, what is the main culprit causing pain with small leaks?

Yep, the acid of the stoma output.

So I started thinking, what about neutralizing the acid as soon as it comes out of the stoma?

So to do this requires the bag be put on upside down, as to create a pool of output to remain on the stoma. The stoma I've learned, is a rather strong pumper so I don't think the mere pressure of a bag of output is going to stop it none.

A problem of course is keeping the bag vertical which I used a flat USB cable around my neck and secured via the roll-up Velcro of the dumping portion of the bag.

It's going to be interesting dumping the thing, and of course rinsing it. So I'll tackle that when I come to it.

Oh, I dropped a couple of antacids in the pouch to neutralize the acid, hopefully.

The idea is this, as output fills the bag and mixed with the antacid, it gets neutralized and thus dilutes with fresh output or neutralizes that as well, before it makes it to the skin level.

So stay tuned fellow sufferers.

[Shamrock4806]

Did a couple of dumps, it's not that bad actually.

I lean over the toilet and press upwards to discharge and then wipe, add rinse and wash and dump and wipe again. Pop in another antacid tablet and I'm off.

I could even start adding deodorant/lubricant.

What I'm attempting to do is allow time to heal the skin damage caused by leaks around the stoma by not irritating it any further by new leaks.

I suspect new leaks will occur and without the pain I'm not going to know for sure how I will know a leak has occurred. I do have extra adhesive strips sealing the bottom to contain output and the protective sheet, so perhaps it will but stay contained until a scheduled routine bag change is due.

With my frequent dumping in going to need the jumbo sized antacid bottle.

[Shamrock4806]

Second night and everything seems fine going to bed, but I've been in bed all day getting much needed rest.

So far no sitting neither so no stress is occurring like I experience typically, I'm trying to give maximum healing time for the skin around the stoma.

You know this antacid method might be effective for those bedridden and have their pouches turned to the right, because usually they are pancaking a little bit anyways so really all that is needed is raising the end of the bag a little to ensure that pooling around the stoma remains. After each dump drop in another antacid.

[Shamrock4806]

Okay I can sit on the toilet and dump also, so day two and no problems, but I've been staying at home mostly and not out driving around, that will be the real test.

[Shamrock4806]

Day 3, took a 5.5 hour long drive. Missed a dumping where I had no anti acid in the bag, felt a slight burning like a leak but remedied with another dump + anti acid.

I'm thinking this is going to actually work, if one wants to go through a roll of antacids once a day.

But if it helps the skin around the stoma heal, instead of always being damaged again by another leak, it might be worth the effort.

[Shamrock4806]

Okay I replaced the bag and changed strategy.

I realized I was cutting an circle hole in the wafer instead of an oval shape to match my stoma, I thought the protective sheet was doing the job but realized the convex was not pushing down on that missing gap which may have caused the protective sheet to lift up at that point and cause a leak.

So I cut a more accurate oval hole in the wafer, forsake the protective sheet to save time and just applied a flattened ring of no sting paste around the stoma and slapped the wafer on, ensuring a small ring of paste appeared around the stoma hole. Pressed down, applied adhesive strips and the belt.

Quick and dirty.

What I'm counting on is the antacid I placed in the pancake area and then rolled up the pouch and lightly taped it in place.

The object is to pool output around the stoma and neutralize the acid as it comes out, which requires output to be constant contact. As the bag fills I can release and retape as needed.

The object is to neutralize the acid so if a leak occurs (which did occur with my previous bag, but I felt almost nothing) it won't damage the skin which is very difficult to bond to.

After the previous bag there was a lot of skin damage, however after 3 days and using antacids with the upside down bag, the damage healed and only the tiny spot not being pressed down by the convex remained.

So I'm back to a basic convex, slightly bent to fit the belly fold better. Just one application of paste because I'm counting on the acid being neutralized thus not damaging the skin.

This is a shift from trying to overly protecting the skin to basically neutralizing the cause and just keeping output from escaping confinement.

[sandys]

Why don’t you make a paste of baking soda and a little water and put it in pouch every time you empty?

[Shamrock4806]

Why don’t you make a paste of baking soda and a little water and put it in pouch every time you empty?

Good idea, the tablets are not always dissolving.

Tums yes, Roll aids no.

I guess I'm looking at the portability aspect, but could do the baking soda thing at home.

The more liquid aspect of the baking soda/water combination would be easier to get towards the pancake area than a tablet as well.

Bought two jumbo sized 250 antacids, one for the car and one for home. Will get baking soda next supermarket visit. (Currently on vacation again )

Since I have my bag back vertical again like normal, I'm also thinking about some sort of light flexible band that would attach to the bottom of the bag to the top and yield under load as to keep content up near the top, but expand if the bag fills up. A loop would work, the bottom sealer could hold it and the top I could loop it around.

Thanks

[Shamrock4806]

On a new bag, same Flonaze + heavy drying + no sting paste + bent convex like before, started using the water + baking soda as a rinsing agent and leaving a little bit inside the bag for acid neutralizing purposes, seems to work well for me for now.

I bought a medium sized sealable flask and dumped a box of baking soda in it, added water and skook it, let it saturate and excess settle to the bottom then use the top watery part as a flush/neutralizer and add more water as needed and shake/settle again. This way I'm carrying only that one flask, not another half empty box of baking soda around too.

I'm trying to eat then lay flat on my back to keep the output up around the stoma area to neutralize acid before it has a chance to settle into a leak.

I still had a leak yesterday, but it was along the bottom and not the top like before. They seem to be not occurring in the same spots anymore, but moving around which means something I hope what I'm addressing is working.

It seems I felt the burn mostly when sitting and the output has settled to the bottom of the bag and not up around the stoma, again occurring when driving which I did a great deal yesterday. The taped up bag kept coming loose as it didn't want it too stuck where it would explode.

So I'm waiting for breakfast to settle down outputting and then will tape the bag up closer with just a small amount of neutralizer and head out on the roads.

I'm trying to get into a proven successful routine as to minimize issues and have some ease in this new otosmy life of mine. Been spending way too much effort on it.

But I think the acid neutralizing method has been very beneficial in lessening the impact of leaks burning, just need to figure out how to keep the neutralizer on the stoma. I also really would like to get to a steady once a week bag change, not every 3 days.

[Shamrock4806]

I'm really liking this portable flask/w baking soda water mix to not only flush, but to leave a little afterwards as an acid neutralizer.

It keeps the bag from stinking up and it's reduced (but not quite eliminated) the stings from tiny leaks.

My wounds have been smaller and less damaged, older ones healed up faster as well.

The only time I screw up is when I don't use the acid neutralizer, like when I have friends in the car and I need to do a quick dump, I often just minimize downtime and forgo the rinse etc. but I can feel the difference if it's not there.

I can get a box of baking soda for $1 each at the dollar stores verses $2-3 for a pack of Tums or Rollaids which then only last a day. A box of baking soda is lasting me a few days and it's easier to get up around the stoma with. The tablets I have to wait for them to dissolve.

So a very good recommendation!

[Shamrock4806]

Okay now I'm using a combination method, on the road tablets with a bottle of water just to add acid, not rinsing, and at home the baking soda with water in the flask rinse method.

If on a longer trip I'll take the flask too.

I think the aches I'm feeling is due to either stress or sweat or something, not being caused too much by acid, because if I lay down and rest, it seems to go away by morning.

[Shamrock4806]

I'm back on the paste + protective sheet + more paste + bent convex appliance combination (+ belt + extra adhesive strips) again.

The damage actually increased going back to the standard paste + convex combination method, even with the acid neutralizer, it's because of shear damage, the appliance is moving and causing leaks, especially when driving or sitting. Same issue as before.

With the protective sheet at least it's flexible and the appliance sheer can occur on top of the sheet which is likely why I got that 9 day bag on, because it did leak on top of the sheet and then dried and even grew mold.

I can't seem to keep the acid neutralized output up around the stoma when driving.

Now with more skin damage I if course need to change the bag more often as the skin heals and tries to shed causing leaks.

I'm investigating a doctor's contraption that actually inserts into the stoma. If this could be used to shunt output to the bottom of the bag, then it might assist in keeping leaks to a minimum. But the skin would always shed, so nothing would change basically.

[Shamrock4806]

So I'm back to the protective sheet method combined with the acid neutralizer since I haven't tried that combination yet.

I will defeat this thing, one day.