Okay my new improved otosmy method

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Shamrock4806
Posts: 517
Joined: 2024-02-22 13:00:22

Okay my new improved otosmy method

Post by Shamrock4806 »

This thread is no longer relevant and no longer being updated.


It's quite elaborate but I was having severe burns likely from drinking coffee (which I've quit) so it required me to be very systematic and thorough. This may not be your exact situation.or appliance use however the things I've learned have implications for others with an ostomy and may be advantageous, why I'm posting it.

This a a very important list of diet necessary for those with an illeostmy. Certain foods NOT to eat and those you could or shouldn't. Some stuff can cause a clog (ER stat!) or cause the stoma to protrude out thus ruining your seal. You pretty much want to eat things that will liquidify upon exit or come out very wet, tiny and very mushy.

You also don't want to consume things that cause a diarrhea situation where your body just goes nuts spewing uncontrollably and you can't get it to stop to put a bag on. You'll dehydrate yourself also. Certain nutritional drinks will do this for me as well as beer.

viewtopic.php?t=27653


I have a near flush illeostmy stoma requiring a convex, a four hook belt and I have a belly fold right where the stoma is. I have a high output otosmy. It's a very difficult situation and my output was burning my skin a lot (coffee was the culprit) but I've solved almost all my problems.

If you don't know what body contour you have, what type of stoma etc. I suggest you study and take a test to find out exactly what appliance will work for you.

Paste works better if you have a near flush stoma, dips, belly folds or uneven skin around the stoma, scabs or granulomas. Or just regular smooth skin also.

Rings work better if you only have nice perfectly even and smooth healthy skin around a well protruding stoma.


I've condensed my procedure down to steps of my daily routine of success.

In the morning check bag condition if any leaks have occured and if so then:

1: Wait until stoma activity has subsided usually in the morning before eating. However if bile is in the bag I will eat very small (applesauce works) something that dries out output (no liquids) to keep digestive system busy while bag change.

If I have tiny burning leaks, I'll dump and flush the bag with a few drops of antibacterial liquid soap and water. Then rinsing with fresh water and even laying down to rinse the upper portion of the bag.

If stoma has subsided producing output I'll dump and remove old appliance using spray adhesive remover. (Keep 2 cans ready in case one runs out) Seal in bag.

2: I take a long hot shower and use something soft, flat and somewhat stiff (coffee stir stick works) to gently sideways scrap any extra stuck on glue, paste etc. (avoids getting fungus under fingernails or scratching skin)..I use antibacterial liquid soap to kill any digestive enzymes and sanitize the skin and wounds, a LOT less painful than alcohol or iodine which I don't want it sealed under paste etc. as it keeps on stinging.

3: Remain in shower until stoma output has subsided if need be. Having a waterproof chair allows rest with shower removing output. (Really only needed in case of a rare blowout now) Meal timing, food amount, using antacids dissolved in water as a bag flush/digestive and enzyme neutralizer (leave a little inside to mix with new output) and watching the bag contents can assist in reducing this wait time.

4: Dry off and proceed to appliance application area. I use my bed and it has everything already prepared and laid out to maximize time before a spewing occurs.

5: Lay down on plastic bag + towel to protect bed in case of sudden stoma discharge. Have soft toilet paper ready to dry up any fluids and water around stoma. Never wipe on wet on, always pat dry and remove, using a dry section of toilet paper each time. Use blow dryer on low to thoroughly dry area so it's really dry skin. If stoma output gets on skin, head back to shower and repeat from #3 as it's really not quiet yet. Output just on the stoma isn't a problem if it's removed before it hits the skin, it's because nothing is going to stick to the stoma.

6: If skin is damaged and weeping, then a tiny bit of stoma adhesive only on damaged areas! To dry then completely toilet paper dry brushed removed else nothing sticks to it. I then use a skin protectant spreading out to cover wherever adhesive or paste will stick. Then blow dry thoroughly and repeat another coating just around the stoma. I've found two good coats is very effective at reducing enzyme burns longer. It's important that the blow drying of the skin is very thorough at this point because the paste needs to stick well to the dry skin. So finger drag and test it's not moist in any way. This is a very important step! Do NOT put stoma powder after skin protectant unless it's covered by another layer of skin protectant because nothing will stick to it, like pastes or adhesives.

I take considerable effort to ensure the skin around the stoma is dry and not greasy or sticky at this point. I need a good bond to prevent leaks. Sometimes there is too much skin protectant and it causes separation issues or adverse skin reaction, so I'll only use no sting paste. I may have been overdoing things in the past because of the coffee causing the burns to be worse than normal.


7: Having a near stoma sized precut hole in my appliance (notched around granuloma area I have) I apply a bead of non-sting paste around the stoma away from it slightly and then fold the lump closer and down a bit next to the stoma using a wooden coffee stir stick. I can immediately tell if the paste is sticking to skin or not, if not then I remove that section, address and return to one of the above steps above depending. Skin adhesion is very important as its protecting the skin. If all the previous steps are done correctly and thoroughly then it should stick all around every time. It's important with paste that the wafer skin contact area of the wafer is covered by paste, much like a ring would. About a 1/2" around stoma. And it's important not to press down too hard that paste covers the wafer hole, only along its edge as seen through the clear bag. Paste will set up like a wall around the stoma and fill unevenness between flat wafer and ones body, so gentle firm pressure to create the seal. Don't try to force the wafer to match the body.

9: Next I take my stiff flat convex and weaken it horizontally so it's a bit more flexible for my belly fold and provides little resistance. If it's too stiff then bending pops the wafer off the skin. I pretest the hole for fit and make body marks using a little paste on the flange skin edge so I can like them up later. I had a graneoluma for awhile that I resolved by using a thicker amount of paste and less tight of a belt. Once it diminished I went back to a more normal amount of paste and kept the belt holding just a little.

10. I peel the backing off the wafer and line up with my body marks, the wafer hole to the bottom of my stoma and gently press into place.

11: I then press down gently, but firmly, with my palm and around the stoma also. The paste should not completely cover the stoma as seen through the the clear bag, a gap or hole is needed.. If covered then I screwed up and put the second layer of paste too close or too thick or pressed too hard and have to redo. With paste I have a lot of control over filling unevenness especially with a belly fold right there. Rings don't work well for me because of the unevenness, even though they do melt, that takes time and the stoma could spew in between. So I use paste, the object being to marry the unevenness of the body contour with the flatter wafer section of my appliance as fast as possible due to my high output ileostomy.

12: I then apply olive or coconut based skin lotion just to my scar tissue. Cover with some pre cut thin cardboard from appliance boxes (the otosmy supplies come in) with edges rounded, to cover scar tissue/belly button so adhesive strips or barriers will not stick to it or it itches. Put toilet paper ball in my belly button scar area to level. Cover with another square piece of cardboard..Press any adhesive areas down and apply extra large adhesive barrier strips all around, one on the left centered under the two left hooks and one on the right both meeting at the bottom as to seal any leaks from escaping. Sealing the top is important as shower water will get in otherwise. I use a blow dryer on low to heat and active the adhesive so it's on the skin firmly and smooth, this will prevent a lot of shower water from getting in, gives a nice professional looking result any otosmy nurse would be proud to see.

13: After laying for a bit to allow the paste to harden up some, I apply my belt and ensure it's not too tight but secure. Then I address my fistula stoma (double barrel ileostomy) by using a piece of low stick tape with a little petroleum jelly smeared on it to keep the stoma lubricated, to protect it from chaffing due to shirts and causing stains.. It doesn't leak much usually and sometimes harder jelly substance, which I remove with a small coffee stir stick. Stoma skin is very fragile and easily damaged so it will bleed, so I'm careful. I'll watch it and pull, clean and replace the fistula tape if it starts getting nasty.

14: Since I use a one piece convex with four hook belt as not to disturb the bond as much as possible (instead of a two piece) I rinse the bag from below using a few drops of antibacterial liquid soap, rinse twice (even.lauing down if necessary) and then leave a little inside to act as a future enzyme neutralizer.

Now if don't have to change the bag in the morning, I'll take a hot shower using waterproof tape along the top of the bag adhesive strips area, then blow dry myself and the bag as it gets wet. I ensure as little shower water as possible runs down the front, using a damp wash cloth for the chest area instead. The belt I've gotten used to it being wet and it dries itself out eventually. I'll just move it sideways a little if it's bothering the skin any. Whatever I do, I don't lift the belt up or it will cause a leak.


So if the bag is good come around lunchtime then I'll go out to someplace close and nutritious, eat a big meal or a few smaller ones and run straight home. Any chores etc are done before eating lunch because the bag is going to go ballistic for the next few hours.

I've found certain foods, like beans, may not digest fully (clog hazzard avoid!) and exit the stoma with a lot of pressure and disturbing the seal despite how well I chew it. So it's good for me to only eat things I know will basically liquify upon exit. I also don't eat foods or drinks that will raise the pH levels of the output (coffee, sodas) cause a clog or doesn't digest fully into liquid in the output. I do this not only to avoid a clog (dangerous!) but to avoid the stoma pushing itself to discharge matter which can disturb the seal and cause leaks. Also if the hole in the wafer etc. isn't right or off center, the stoma extending out can push the appliance off and create a leak. Why now I make a skin paste mark to match the tab on the top of my wafer when pre-fitting.

I do no major eating after 2 pm as to give plenty of time for lunch to process and not during the night which may lead to a very bloated overfilled bag which pressure from the stoma output will start forcing it's way under the seal and cause a leak or even a blow out. I sleep only on my back using pillows under each arm to keep me stationary. I found sleeping on either side with a belt on causes problems, blowouts and graneoluma.

Later in the evening or early am I may get hungry, but it's only very small dry snacks. Sometimes in the morning I'm hungry enough that bile just fills my bag, this isn't good as it will keep spewing while trying to do a bag change, so I'll eat a small snack, no liquids, usually applesauce works great, to stop or slow this bile generation an hour or so later so I can then take a shower and get a new bag on.

Note your situation may be different. I have a near flush stoma in a belly fold which is a bit more difficult than normal.


I hope this helps anyone else and if anyone can see something I could do differently or better, please speak up as I'm open to improving my process until I can live comfortably once again. 😊

Again, this first post is edited to be up to date on my process. Later posts are just comments.
Last edited by Shamrock4806 on 2024-12-08 08:09:16, edited 28 times in total.
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Shamrock4806
Posts: 517
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Re: Okay my new improved otosmy method

Post by Shamrock4806 »

I've taken to putting antibacterial dish soap in my flush/ neutralizer water flask with antacids as I ran out of baking soda and not due for a supermarket visit yet. Seems to work well.

I also went shower less until Fri 20th afternoon to see if the heat of the shower (with covered bag) is causing it to sweat off. The paste covered area around the stoma did feel itchy, for a bit, don't know if that indicates a leak or not. I'm pancaking with my acid neutralizer just in case. (Everything fine)

I definitely got a good bag on, I think the high pressure with the tube during application benefitted a lot this time around.

Edit nope: tube pressure was squishing out too much paste.
Last edited by Shamrock4806 on 2024-10-17 21:11:13, edited 2 times in total.
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Shamrock4806
Posts: 517
Joined: 2024-02-22 13:00:22

Re: Okay my new improved otosmy method

Post by Shamrock4806 »

Woo hoo!

Day 7 and the bag is working perfectly. 😊

I think we have a winning formula folks!

I'll know better when I pull it off, last 9 day bag did leak on top of the protective sheet, I didn't feel it, it dried and grew black mold. πŸ™„

I should say my pressure tube is s roll of medical tape that just so happens to be big enough to go around the stoma, and thick enough to cover the flange area of the wafer to press that paste down firmly. Body heat activated.

I've often seen this step and even a device online to do it with, but thought my hand pressure with the convex was doing the job. Apparently not well enough.
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Shamrock4806
Posts: 517
Joined: 2024-02-22 13:00:22

Re: Okay my new improved otosmy method

Post by Shamrock4806 »

Morning of the 8th day I decided to change the bag, it was feeling tired and a bit achy but not burning.

I only took two hot showers with the bag covered over this 7 day period and another one this morning when the bag was off. Normally the bag sweats off if a hot shower but twice it did not. So I think the tube pressure step assists quite a bit to get a good skin bond. I'm kicking myself for not figuring this out sooner. πŸ™„

After the bag removed there was only a small area above the stoma that the skin was burned, I did feel it earlier in the week but the enzyme neutralizer took care of any further damage.

I noticed the Coloplast convex wafer I replaced with was a lot more flexible than past issues. I didn't need to break it's back horizontally to fit better into my belly fold and remain flexible while bending, it just bended on its own. If this is an improvement it's certainly welcome. 😊

So I repeated the first post steps exactly like before and we'll see if another 7 days goes by without a problem.

Edited: Not acid burns, enzyme burns. But if there is stomach acid per chance, it's also being neutralized via higher alkalinity as well as the bacteria. 😊
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Shamrock4806
Posts: 517
Joined: 2024-02-22 13:00:22

Re: Okay my new improved otosmy method

Post by Shamrock4806 »

Dang Blowout.

I know what I did wrong. πŸ™„

After a hot shower last night I got some water in my belly button and I was a bit too aggressive getting it out from under the adhesive strips, must have weakened the bond, especially when I lifted on the belt on that left side where it doesn't have as much downward pressure. Dumb move. I know better.

The extra adhesive strips held most of it in, the protective sheet, skin barrier (Flonaze) and the enzyme neutralizer protected the skin from any damage.

Just small burns around the stoma, less than before.

But my shirt is ruined. πŸ™„

And I just realized I used my next to last bag. 😲
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GeorgeS
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Re: Okay my new improved otosmy method

Post by GeorgeS »

Shamrock4806 wrote: 2024-09-26 12:29:35 Dang Blowout.

But my shirt is ruined. πŸ™„

And I just realized I used my next to last bag. 😲
Sorry to hear. :(

:idea: I was thinking, the benefits of a 2-piece system:
  • You can choose between closed or open end pouch depending on situations. Have some of each.
  • Also, with or without filters, one needs to expel this eventually and for me often. With a 1-piece system you have to open the bottom of the pouch to do so. With a 2-piece, I simply crack the connection to the wafer.
Colostomy due to stage 3 CRC rad/surgery/chemo all in 2020
Shamrock4806
Posts: 517
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Re: Okay my new improved otosmy method

Post by Shamrock4806 »

GeorgeS wrote: 2024-09-26 12:48:20
Sorry to hear. :(

:idea: I was thinking, the benefits of a 2-piece system...
A two piece didn't work for me because I can't afford to pull it up or off less it weakens the wafer bond.

I wound up super gluing the two piece together because they kept coming apart due to my belly fold.

No a one piece it is for me unfortunately.



I need to maintain a tight and steady downward pressure at all times then keep it that way.

Just pulling up on the belt a little did me in this last time. πŸ™„

I need to find a better way of keeping the bag dry in the shower. Waterproof tape is not doing the job.
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Shamrock4806
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Re: Okay my new improved otosmy method

Post by Shamrock4806 »

Okay I got only two days outta this last bag, apparently a leak at the bottom, top one healed up

Seems to be the cycle, either the top or bottom fails for some reason.

So I ripped it off and took a shower, made a mistake with too much paste, tossed the whole mess as it wasn't sticking and redid it. πŸ™„

Had to use the iodine to stop the skin infection, wash it and apply more skin protectant, dry it then the paste stuck well. Oh brother what a pain.

I'm getting really really tired of this b.s. 😒

Edit: Iodine or alcohol bad, now use antibacterial soap in shower followed by conditioner after each spew. Much less painful.
Last edited by Shamrock4806 on 2024-10-17 21:13:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Shamrock4806
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Re: Okay my new improved otosmy method

Post by Shamrock4806 »

Okay in short

1: Prepare new bag and protective sheet cutting hole to match stoma.

2: Dump and remove old appliance using adhesive remover spray.

3: Take a shower and wash with moisturizing soap, use a soft object with sideways motion to remove any stuck on glue, paste etc. do not use fingernails to avoid fungus under the nails.

4: Dry off and head to preparation area, dry stoma area thoroughly with blow dryer. If spew occurs, head back to shower and wash and dry again.

5: If weeping enzyme burns, treat with iodine in very small dabs to kill it. Allow some time, then wash the area of remaining iodine and dry. Avoid stoma powder.

6: Dry area around stoma well, apply two coats of Flonaze pouring around stoma and spreading out to cover adhesive areas. Dry well between coats. Important! Keep stoma dry by dabbing with soft toilet paper.

7: Apply no sting paste around stoma and press down closer so a 1/2" thin band all around that sticks to the skin. If it doesn't stick then remove that area and go back to step 5.

8: Apply protective sheet centering bottom and pressing down and around stoma while crunching to fit belly fold better.

9: Add another 1/2" ring of paste around stoma on top of protective sheet and spread so not so thick. Fold convex wafer horizontally and bite/heat edge so it's more flexible. Crunch and apply centering in the bottom hole and pressing up and then down.

10: Use a thick tube matching stoma size and wafer flange thickness to press down hard for several minutes through the wafer/bag to get a good skin bond and closing any small gaps.

11: Apply a thin coat of petroleum jelly to scar tissue to avoid adhesive sticking to it. Small piece of toilet paper on belly button.

12: Apply extra adhesive strips on the left (looking down) and on the right under the hooks. Meeting at the bottom. Gap at top okay usually as leaks don't go up.

13: Palm press the whole mess down to get adhesive to activate. Then hold while applying belt, tight but not painfully so.

14: Double barrel illeostmy so a small piece of low stick tape with petroleum jelly to prevent damaging the fragile fistula stoma.

Idea! Instead of the painful iodine, what about antibacterial dish/soap while in the shower then followed by a moisturizer soap? πŸ€”

We will find the absolute BEST otosmy process yet!

Thanks to all that chipped in to help me understand what's going on here so I can find a fool proof method. 😊
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Mara
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Re: Okay my new improved otosmy method

Post by Mara »

Glad that your improved method seems to be working for you, Shamrock4806.

Just to others, particularly newer people with ostomies who might be reading this board, there are other solutions besides his. And somewhat easier...imo...Of course everyone's situation is different!

In my case, I remove my old appliance in the shower - wash the stoma area briefly with soap and water, then rub off the remaining faceplate/eakins residue with my finger - I don't use any type of remover. I dry off the area with a hair dryer, then a tiny dusting of Stomahesive powder which pretty much disappears with a second drying. I put on my new Eakin seal, faceplate and pouch standing up in the bathroom and hold it firm for a minute or two.

I do this first thing in the morning before I drink anything so rarely have anything coming out from the stoma.
Ileostomy due to UC - 50 odd years
Shamrock4806
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Re: Okay my new improved otosmy method

Post by Shamrock4806 »

Thank you Mara!

I'm very interested in how others do things to see if a better method is possible for me.

That seems very simple but I have a belly fold and a near flush stoma requiring a convex and a belt. A lot more difficult perhaps?

What about enzyme burns from leaks or you just don't get any anymore? How do you address those if you do? Stoma powder adhesive? Didn't know it comes as an adhesive, only a powder that actually ruins adhesive of wafers etc.



I had a really bad bag day again, took a five hour drive and ate meatloaf for lunch, apparently something in it that my stoma did not like and spewed constantly for hours and of course a leak, all while driving.

Turns out there was tiny seeds in the meatloaf! What the heck?

So now it's 11 hours later and I finally got a bag on, no protective sheet this time neither as I ran out. πŸ™„

It seems the adhesive of the wafer adheres better to skin than the protective sheet.

Anyway getting some much needed rest, it's been two bad bag days in a row, coming right off a great 7 day bag run.

There's just no rhyme or reason with it. πŸ™„

I can't seem to consistently win. 😒
I get knocked down, but I get up again
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Mara
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Re: Okay my new improved otosmy method

Post by Mara »

You are welcome!

No, I don't have a flush stoma - a few years back after I got older and put on some weight, I guess - it did become quite flush so I went to a convex faceplate. I decided to have a revision which was a fairly easy surgery as far as I remember and now my stoma sticks out ok. I don't think I ever used a belt - or certainly not for decades...

As far as burns from leaks I don't get them and don't really remember getting them....I change ordinarily once a week and there is often some output that gets under the Eakin seal and a bit of the face plate but not enough to cause a problem. It just washes right off and doesn't leave anything like a burn....

And even though I have certainly put on weight in the decades since my original surgery I don't have belly folds - I guess I was lucky that my original surgeon did an excellent stoma placement.
Ileostomy due to UC - 50 odd years
Shamrock4806
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Re: Okay my new improved otosmy method

Post by Shamrock4806 »

Well I'm not very overweight where a belly fold is a serious problem, it's just when I need to bend over the fold occurs in the stoma area right across it otherwise standing up or laying down doesn't cause the fold.

My output seems to be highly corrosive and the slightest skin touch causes pain. So your little underneath would be a major issue for me.

Standing in the shower to wait for the stoma to chill out is quite a chore, I'm staying in hotels right now and not always a chair I can place in the shower to sit and wait it out.

So it's been back and forth from the shower to the bed and back, using up all my dry towels.

Tried putting a bag on standing up and it didn't go well, even tried the toilet and that didn't go well. 😒

I seem to need to take a especially long time to put a bag on for the enzyme burns treated and thoroughly drying of the skin so paste etc works.

If I get careless then the bag doesn't last long, not even though the day.

If given a choice of this or living I would have chosen not to have it.

I'm desperately trying to find a solution and as soon as I get 7 days and comfortable, then a few truly awful bag days.

I need some sort of consistency so I can plan out my days without the bag messing up the works.

I'm trying to have a life for as long as I've got one and this bag isn't cooperating.

Edit: Found a discarded plastic milk crate to carry my bathroom gear and double as a portable shower seat. 😊
Last edited by Shamrock4806 on 2024-10-17 21:15:15, edited 1 time in total.
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ot dave
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Re: Okay my new improved otosmy method

Post by ot dave »

Shamrock,
Have you tried any samples from Cymed? Their flanges are really flexible, and adhere very well, without the need for additional products. They are similar in nature to your barrier sheets if I'm not mistaken. I tried them a few years ago, and was impressed at how well they adhered, and how flexible they were. They weren't the right choice for me as I prefer a two piece system so that I can irrigate. But, if I had an active ileostomy, these are something that I would want some samples of...
Here's a link to some info: https://cymed.us/#:~:text=Designed%20Fo ... ity.%20The

Might be worth a shot considering the issues that you are having with movement and adhesion.

David
stage III rectal CA 12/08 - colostomy 3/09
"Gatoring since 2010"
Psalms 91:2
Shamrock4806
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Re: Okay my new improved otosmy method

Post by Shamrock4806 »

Thanks Dave I'll look into it..😊

Oh, no convex option with belt.

I have a belly fold and a near flush stoma..😒

My rig is very heavy duty, four hook belt too.

I have no problem keeping the bag on, it's the small painful leaks that burn under the paste that's my problem. Sorry to say rings are actually worse for me, unless I didn't find a really good one or something.

I'm looking at food intake as a possible cause of the burning output, maybe I should be on a more alkaline diet? πŸ€”

Others are not reporting the burns from output like I do.

"Stool from an ileostomy can be corrosive and damage the skin quickly. This can cause burning and itching, especially when the stoma is functioning"

Well it seems stoma output burning the skin is quite the norm for most it seems.

Wonder what can separate some from not having that issue to others that do? πŸ€”

I haven't tried Coloplast's Barrier Cream yet as my supplier has been out of stock. Will try this.

Added note: I took the Coloplast product check test and I am using exactly what they recommend and cutting hole correct for my oval stoma and everything.

Edit: Coffee was making my output very acidic and burns severe. Now off coffee and burns are minor.
Last edited by Shamrock4806 on 2024-10-17 21:17:07, edited 1 time in total.
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