UOAA Discussion Board

Maybe I just haven't read all the right stuff yet, but I haven't seen any reference to archiving. Will this be done at all, or on some kind of schedule?

Thanks,
Linda in NJ

Linda,

Archiving really isn't an issue with this kind of board. Note that in the General Forum, now that it's reached more than 50 topics, some are displayed on a 2nd page. In this way, the software automatically displays topics that haven't been as active recently on additional pages, showing only a specified number per page (50 by default, but I can change that number). Topics on later pages haven't actually been "archived," as you can still reply to them; you just need to click more to reach them (or you may instead find them using the board's Search function). As soon as somebody replies in one of these older threads, it jumps back onto the first page.

Archiving was needed with the ancient WWWBoard software that we used in the UOA boards because that software displayed every message from every thread on a single web page, resulting in an extremely big, unwieldy (slow loading) page unless something was done to reduce its size. Moreover, WWWBoard software didn't come with any sort of built-in archiving mechanism, requiring operators of the board to improvise something. Stu Schaefer originally improvised an archiving technique when he used WWWBoard on the IOA Forum (before they switched to newer software in Fall 2001). I simplified Stu's technique somewhat when I began using WWWBoard on the UOA site in Spring 2001. Even so, it was a brute force method, producing a totally sharp cutoff: starting over from scratch on a selected date, making everything posted before that date non-replyable. Also, since it was an improvised process rather than a feature built into the software, it required a lot of work on my part (I spent about half an hour every time I archived one of those boards!). One of the reasons I wanted to switch to more modern software in starting up this UOAA board was to get away from that archiving procedure.

Bob

Thanks a lot for the clear answer - as always!

Linda in NJ

Ah, okay Bob, does your reply answer my question from my previous topic post about why topics/threads can't be set to stay in the order posted?

Bob and Linda in NJ,

I note the issue of archiving, however, if my understanding is correct from prior posts on the old UOA board and this one, the concern about loss of the old archives caused a good deal of consternation among some of the posters.

What assurances are there that this new board and its accummulating posts will be maintained for future uses; or will some decision makers decide to delete of prevent them from being available, as apparently happened with the old guard at UOA?

Since you were the web tech overseer for the old UOA and now for this group, why can't you obtain the old archives and make them available to this new endeavor? Forgive me for intimating this next point, but were you responsible as well for denying the old archives a new home here?

Since you are keeping the old UOA website alive, albeit in a static form, could you not revive or resurrect the archives? I'm befuddled about this issue, especially since it has become accepted protocol to expect that information freely given across the Net is a lot like a virtual library, and I would hate to think, let alone accept, that some individual or individuals have the power to arbitrarily police or censor what will or will not survive for future beneficiaries, especially as it applies to non-profit entities like the old UOA and this UOAA group.

Lilygirl

The content on the old UOA site literally belonged to the UOA, Inc. That included the discussion boards and everything that was contained on them. It is a shame we lost that but it is not this organizations fault nor Bob's. He had no choice. The closing of the UOA, Inc is like a death. It is over except the memories. I don't mean to sound like I am chastising anyone but just trying to help explain what happened. How do I know you might ask? I was on the UOA Board when it was decided to include discussion boards on the UOA site. I have been involved ever since and I continue to be so on this site as well.
Like Bob said this site does not need archiving like the old board. New forums will be on this site so please hang in there. After all, this site has only been up for 2 weeks The five different discussion boards on the old UOA site came about over a few years. This site won't take nearly that long but does take time. Remember, Bob and the others are volunteers and have regular jobs so this is done when there is time. I was impressed and grateful that he was able to get this forum up and running so quickly and seamlessly. Steve S

Lilygirl,

Regarding the UOA archives, if you were reading my messages on the old UOA discussion board, you'd know that I wanted very much to preserve those archives. The decision not to preserve them (but, instead, destroy them on Sept 30) was made first by the UOA Editorial Board and then ratified by the full UOA Board of Directors. I didn't belong to either of those bodies, so couldn't participate in their deliberations. I did attend the final, public Board of Directors meeting at the UOA Conference in Anaheim, where we convinced them to reconsider their decision. But the result was disappointing, as all but one of the Board members present voted to reconfirm their earlier decision not to release the archives.

UOA's stated reason was a privacy issue: They claimed that people who posted on the UOA discussion boards were posting specifically to the UOA site and hadn't given permission to have their comments appear elsewhere. I disagreed with their reasoning; however, I had no choice but to abide by their decision. As Steve wrote, the contents of the UOA website were UOA's property--not mine personally. So, I couldn't copy the UOA discussion archives to this UOAA site (or elsewhere), much as I would have liked to.

Lilygirl, your comments about "virtual library" suggest a misconception--as if websites exist in a virtual never-neverland independently from the people who operate and provide those sites. Every website needs people to run it and actually pay money to keep the site on the Internet. (And even when a site includes a discussion board, that board is owned by the people who provide the website, not by the discussion board users.) In the case of UOA, a decision was made to pay enough for web hosting to keep the UOA site online for a period of one year past the organization's shutdown date (thus, until Sept 30, 2006). However, it will be only a static site, without any interactive content, to minimize the need for maintenance (and because UOA no longer has any personnel to respond to inquiries). Also, while the UOA site will remain online for only one year, steps have been taken to protect the uoa.org domain name for a period of five years, to block any third party from starting up a website using that domain name.

The overall amount of information on the Internet is continually increasing. However, much of that information is also quite ephemeral, as individual websites blink out all the time. Generally, websites provided by an organization (such as UOA or UOAA) are more stable than sites produced by a single individual. But organizations sometimes go belly up, as has happened to UOA.

I'd like to think that UOAA, and this UOAA website, will stay around for many years. But this depends on how successful UOAA will be, which is far from certain. UOAA is affected by many of the same pressures that caused the demise of UOA, such as the decreasing number of ostomy surgeries. UOAA hopes to succeed by adopting a model that doesn't depend on individual memberships and by avoiding UOA's most costly activities. But noone knows yet how well this will work out.

If you'd like this website to stay around, then you--and everyone else reading this message--should do what you can to make UOAA successful. The most important thing you can do, if you haven't already, is subscribe to The Phoenix magazine. Subscriptions cost only $25. I'm sure it will be a great magazine, as it's being produced by Ian Settlemire who was also UOA's Ostomy Quarterly editor. And right now, these magazine subscriptions are UOAA's only source of revenue!

Another important thing you can do is help us acquire affiliated support groups. To succeed, UOAA will need affiliations from basically all of the former UOA chapters as well as many groups that were never affiliated with UOA at all. (And, currently, affiliation is FREE, as UOAA will not begin charging any affiliation fees until January 2007.) So far, as you can see on our Support Group page, only a small number of the former UOA chapters have affiliated with UOAA. Most of the former UOA chapters are probably somewhat skeptical and haven't decided yet whether to join our new national organization. If you belong to such a group, or know anyone in such a group, then please urge them to affiliate with UOAA.

Bob

I think most people and most former chapters are in a wait and see mentality. We have about 30 groups that have affiliated so far and that is not many considering there were over 300 in the old UOA. I belong to 2 chapters myself and both are waiting until the first of the year to see what the UOAA is all about.
I agree with Bob in that a good way to support the UOAA as an individual is the subscribe to the new upcoming Phoenix magazine. This new organization is just in it's infancy and it will take time to grow. I can see how active this new board has become so I am encouraged. It seems like this board has been active more than the 3+ weeks so far! Steve S

I agree with Steve, in that this place is really taking off! We are fast approaching 1000 posts on the general board, and have already topped that overall, including the help boards, support groups, etc. And since its been around for only just over 3 weeks, that equates to about 50 posts per day, which equates to about around 2 posts per hour! I think that is great! It also seems like EVERYONE is contributing... young and older, and from even outside the states. Whats great is that it will only get better! The goal now is to spark more interest in what was the old UOA infrastructure, meaning the support groups, as Bob said. And I say, don't do it alone. People who participate in this board obviously have some interest in furthering this organization, and while we might not know each other that well at a personal level, now is the time to band together in the real world, if not already done. If we send one person to their support group, and they work on convincing their group to affiliate, that is good. Imagine if several of you got together and went to the same group. That would be much more convincing! Though, I feel I am being rather hypocritical here, as I have not actually "walked my talk." In the near future, I plan to actually attend support groups, when I get my act together in school. And while many have already tapped into the support groups, I am pretty much in the same boat as all of us who have yet to spread the word to groups! So, we should definitely go out there, band together, and garner as much support as possible! In the mean time, for me, I wish to "get prepared" and educated on this organization more so I could accurately and efficiently help spread the word about it. Well, thats just my thoughts here, coming from a college student who has not been to groups since he was a wee kid! I plan to subscribe to the Phoenix too, and YOU should too! Out.

Bob,

I truly appreciate your comprehensive response to my inquiry about the
archiving of the UOA discussion boards. Your point about the virtual realm is also very much appreciated, especially for clarifying the "ownership" misconception that I and no doubt others have misconstrued.

I suppose my past experiences working in libraries made me feel especially sensitive to any actions that "smell" of censorship or information denial. In light of your clarification about the process by which the archives were denied a longer lifespan, it is, in hindsight, a most unfortunate decision that the majority of the old guard had acted accordingly. Still, I can not help but feel a bit of lingering dismay that the likelihood of this action being repeated by UOAA is also a very strong possibility, especially given the economic argument put forth by you and Steve regarding UOAA's potential, and not certainty, for survival.

I note also that earlier pleas to Mike ET to return to this board have gone unanswered by him. I know some of the ETs from his area and they tell me that he is still 'smarting" from the UOA actions and that he is not too keen on retracing the path of disappointment and having valuable information denied future posters. I can only report impressions received by some of his peers that some of the leadership of UOAA is from the old UOA school and this does not bode too well on his part - I guess he is not so willing to trust this new effort if it is being guided by some of the very same folks who failed UOA.

Oh well, what an intersesting soap opera!

Lilygirl

Lilygirl,

In view of your experience working in libraries, I think you'll be particularly interested in a site that got mentioned in one of the threads in the General forum, namely, "WayBackMachine" at http://www.archive.org/web/web.php which has stored copies of websites as they were long ago, even if the original sites no longer exist, or have been vastly altered, etc. WayBackMachine is part of a still larger project at www.archive.org to archive content of the Internet.

WayBackMachine includes archived copies of the old UOA site, including messages posted on the UOA discussion board. Their most recent archiving of the UOA site seems to have been in March 2005, but that still permits reading an awful lot of board postings.